Location: Christian-Air Head office, Blackburn, UK
Age: 20
Gender: Male
Hi Guys,
I've just flown from Gatwick, UK (EGKK) to Hamburg, GERMANY (EDDH), the weather conditions are very poor vis down to 1/4 mile and heave snow, i tryed do an ILS Approach and Landing, knowing that you can fly it down to the ground, BUT when ATC tell me to Maintain heading till cleared on the Localiser, how can i do that... i mean i can maintain heading but how do i know when i intercept the localiser beams. also do i need to set my NAV receiver to the Runway ILS and set the OBS (Light Aircraft) to the Runway Heading. I'm not sure what i need to. How can i find out the ILS Frequency etc.
Ok, here's what i do.
Exactly the same upto the point where your told to maintain your heading until fixed. You need to place the ILS frequency of the runway your landing on into your NAV1.
This is how I do it. Open up your GPS, and press the waypoint button (the one with an arrow going through a D). press the right hand SMALL arrow on the dial and manually type in the ICAO code of the airport your landing at. Press ENT 3 times. Press PROC and then ENT (select approach should already be highlighted). Use the BIG arrow dial to choose required runway. press ENT for selected runway, press ENT again, and again, the PROC then ENT. You should now have activated vectors to final!
How do you find the ILS frequencies?.....With the GPS in its normal mode and view, go to the second NAV page by pressing the BIG arrow to the RIGHT. You will be in a new screen with the letters WPT at the bottom and you will be on page 4 of 7 (number of pages varies depending on amount of info for that airport). Press the SMALL arrow button to the LEFT once or twice (again depending on airport) and you will come across a page with a list of frequencies for ground, ILS, approach, etc. Press the PUSH CRSR button and use the BIG arrows to find the frequency you require.
Enter this into you NAV1 in your radio stack and your done.
If you in the big planes (737 etc) keep an eye on the pink arrow just below the artificial horizon which will show you where the localiser is reletive to you. On the small planes its the white line on the upper OBS. Providing youve done everything right, as soon as you see the pink arrow move press the APP button on the auto pilot and the AP will lock onto the localiser and later the glide slope. Remember, try to be about 3,000ft above the runway alt before capturing the localiser and at a nice shallow angle (less than 45 deg.)
Good luck!
Paul
What I do is this. Open the map by clicking on the map icon (it's usually located between the ATC and the Radio Stack buttons). Using the mouse, pan to the destination airport. If you are flying IFR its easy, just follow the red line to the end. Zoom in on the airport until you see the individual runways clearly filling the window. Click on the runway you want to land on. It will open the facilities window with the runway name. Click on the runway name and it will open a window which gives you heading and ILS frequencies for that particular runway. Or else click on the airport name and it will open another window which will give you the runway IDs, ILS freq, ILS Headings, runway length and surface type for all runways at that airport along with the ATIS, Tower, Ground and Approach frequencies, Longitude, Lattitude and Altitude of the airport!
However I like the idea of using the GPS for such stuff. I will try that next time. Thanks Paul.
Both are excellent ideas. One other method is to PREPLAN in the FLIGHT PLANNER the course hdg to take, ILS Freq., CT Freq, VOR ID's of the FINAL Airport and ALL the ILS Freq's. of ALL the rwy's at the final stop not just the one selected by the game. It could change en route or on final if real weather engaged. With this info on a SMALL NOTEPAD beside you, input in the VOR 1: the ILS freq. of the FINAL DESTINATION RWY. It is not important to see a glide slope as you leave, just follow the pitch of the FD-109's (Flight Director V-Bars in the ATI). The VOR #2 s/b set at the VOR signal of the FINAL airport. When you have the VISUAL FLIGHT PATH SET at 10K ft and with the highest number of G.SLOPE indicators (I use the Yellow Brick Road) with the minimum distance between the visual ILS aids, it will be allot easier to nav in the snow, etc. Upon contact with ATC, the tower/approach will guide you in, select GPS: PROCEDURE BUTTON, VECTORS SET THEM TO BE ACTIVE for the RWY told by ATC to land on. When you have the ATC's approval, activate the ILS VECTORS, and the RED GUIDE PATH disappears from the GPS. Now follow the ATC commands. They will guide your direction to the ILS G.SLOPE LOCALIZER. As soon as you see the little RED TRIANGLE = LOCALIZER on the GPS SCREEN, be ready to enagage the APPR / ILS HOLD button on the GPS. The Localizer is at the ILS Outer Marker. On the GPS, zoom in screen to help you see the EXACT HDG into the path. RED LINE approaches the RWY. When you crossover the LOCALIZER, ENGAGE APPROACH:GPS, or ILS HOLD button. You will start descending and keep the altitude as stated. 1700 feet a minute down, s/b. Take over autopilot control at the INNER MARKER, Land, there you are. The GPS does not need to be used that much, just enough to get you close, you should fly the rest in. More fun in snow!
Steve Hinson
I've been using the same approach as pauls to finding the ILS freq. to use to locate the localizer and glidescope.... but I also like Shankar's way too... the only problem is that it "pauses" the action when you go to the map... but both are great ways to line yourself up for a great ILS landing.....
Okay, You know when you have flown through the ILS beams when you see the LOC needle start to move into the center of Vor 1, at that time turn to the inbound heading that you see on the appr Chart, you should have one if you want to do a proper ILS appr. Put airnav in yahoo, you can print almost any ILS, NDB,vor appr in the U.S.
To get back to your question. ATC will NOT turn you onto the runway heading, you have to watch the LOC needle, and when it starts to move in, then line your plane up to the inbound heading. Forget the runway heading, you have to put the inbound heading in the OBS that you see on the chart.
The glide slope will start to come in on alot of airports that have a LOM.
Tip, make very small corrections, dont chase the needle.
I have a I/R rating, belive me its harder in real life to do these appr.
I hope you can put all this together, with the help of other members.
One other method is to PREPLAN in the FLIGHT PLANNER the course hdg to take, ILS Freq., CT Freq, VOR ID's of the FINAL Airport and ALL the ILS Freq's. of ALL the rwy's at the final stop not just the one selected by the game. It could change en route or on final if real weather engaged.
That makes sense! I think procedure dictates that we should be armed with all this information before we depart. And I just checked it out. The map view in the "Find Route" or "Edit" section of "Flight Planner" contains the all the information I mentioned in my previous post. Just click on the final waypoint displayed in the righthand window and the map zooms to your destination airport. Zoom in again on the airport and click on it and it brings up the same "facility information" window. All the information is right there. This is good. Thanx guys.
In reality, you wont have the "luxury/misery" of using a GPS to fly an APR.. This is for several reasons...:
1) In a Cessna 172 and 182's, you wont normally have a DIRECT GPS link up to your othe instruments...probly the ONLY exception is in the glass cockpits...unless you have the money to buy a $250,000+ Plane plus an aditional amount of money for the glass cockpit with all the bells and whistles...well dont count on that GPS.
2) the same thing goes for MOST HEAVY airliners...no glass cockpit with all the bells and whistles...dont count on the GPS.
3) Why would you want to use the GPS anyways?...i find it a bit of a hassle myself. not to mention it takes the whole fun of the ILS APR. away. you dont get to click the necessary buttons to establish the LOC., and all that stuff...the GPS does it for you.
4) IF FOR ANY REASON AT ALL, THIS IS THE BIGGEST... This is where EVERYONE completely *beep* up their ILS landing...you dont use the gps for the ILS landing...the plane will form a mind of its own if you do this...INSTEAD...make sure you have that little switch (the one that lets you choose NAV or GPS) turned to NAV.. You only use GPS to follow the flight path of your flight plan. when you turn that litle knob or toggle switch to NAV., the AutoPilot will take over the basic ILS APR. (IE: Keeping the plane centered on the GS.)
I will TRY to make a short vid of an ILS APR., From: KGRK To:KGRK
(For those who dont know...yes this is a go around.).
Edit by Me: I have been studying, and flying the ILS APR for a long, long time now, if anyone is wondering. i also admit that i may be wrong on some parts of these topics, concerning the info i give, and therefore will stand corrected if i see i have been.
I am glad you have had such a number of years in the cockpit. Many of the audience will never have that chance for whatever reason. The game uses GPS, so it is a nice add-on for a GAME.
That is all this thing is, a game. So if MickeySoft wants to throw all the bells & whistles at us, let them. I will just have more fun; not near as much fun as 20 years crewing a BUFF (B-52H) during the Cold War with Nukes: yepper, the big ones.
The deal is simple, we all love to think it is real. Your corrections to the GPS use for ILS is right on the dot. Thank you for that. I did sense however that you were slashing at the fact we would never see GPS or the BELLS and WHISTLES. If so, that is life, either way. This is the next best thing to flying for real. It will do for most of us.
You sound like a good pilot, fly safe and enjoy every minute of it.
OHH, OOPS!!!...I wish i had a few years in the cockpit...in reallife that is.
I should have been more specific...i have been studying the ILS for years on FS...When it comes to specifics...well, i kinda miss some of the important stuff...lol sorry.
If it sounded like i was slashing anything...well, im sorry...but the truth hurts dont it?
i would have to guess that only 25% of the small A/C out there actually have a glass cockpit installed for the owner of that plane.
The other 75%...well, i guess you could guess...those dont have those glass cockpits...Thats only my own guess...you are free to correct me.
you be truthful, i have a way to go when it comes to flying...i still need to MASTER landing a 777...by hand. i will admit this...i have toubles of my own...but they end up getting fixed...i dont always fly the 777 either. so that explains my problem.
i forgot to mention in my last post, that whoever thought of that pre plan thing...that was a GREAT move...I dont do that because i have actual military APR. Plates...ok ok ok...i have two...but i normally fly in texas anyways so i rarely ever need any OOS (Out Of State) Plates...There is that occasional want to fly elsewhere...i use the map most of the time for that reson.
I see you did note my "USE FLIGHT PLANNER" at the start: the proper way to prep for a flight. Yes the FlPlnr s/b first and it s/b memorized. Without planning ahead, your dead. Simple as that in REAL FLIGHT.
I will not debate the number of planes, hours flown, etc. with you. It would not be a fair debate. Suffice it to say in my 10 years in SAC as a BUFF Crew Chief, 8th AF, 97th BW, Blytheville AFB, ARK., we flew more than our share of secret & top secret missions around the globe. Not in puddle jumpers.
WE ALL HAVE TO LEARN THE PUDDLE JUMPERS ROLE before we move on. If someone has trouble understanding ILS, GPS, etc. Let's just help them to understand. No ridiculus comments to make others feel less a person is ever warranted in any conversation concerning such an easy social topic, or for that matter any topic.
Location: Christian-Air Head office, Blackburn, UK
Age: 20
Gender: Male
Ok Guys
I think I may have sussed it.... Taht little GPS/NAV switch does sound like the problem, if only part of the main problem, and today i tryed tuning in me NAV1 Radio of my Gulfstream to (Newcastle's Airport) (EGNT), and I started to turn ... btw on the autopilot you you set the Nav to the Runway Heading i did that and turned towards the runway but when i clicked APP nothing happened.
I feel I've nearly solved it, but also i didn't get and Localiser Beam and did an ILS landing by eyeballing the Runway (PAPI, VASI) and Altimeter.
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