New i7 Chips... and a story...

Got the best performer PC around? post your config here.

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New i7 Chips... and a story...

Post by Cat1 » Sun Mar 01, 2009 9:59 pm

I have a couple of questions for some folks that are much more studied up on the market as far as things go.

Here is the history: Friday evening my Father in Law walked into my home office and said… “I’ve been told to tell you that if you find a desk for the office you like I am willing to pay for it, just let me know how muchâ€
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Post by tropicalfish » Sun Mar 01, 2009 10:31 pm

The QX series are not really worth the money unless you are into serious overclocking.

The lowest model of i7 comes for around 250 USD I think?

Do you have a particular budget in mind?
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Post by Cat1 » Sun Mar 01, 2009 10:42 pm

I'm not parsing or reading all the reviews available, otherwise I would not have posted it here, it's not a budget aspect.
It's the most bang for the buck with the tech going forward.

To answer the question I posted takes up to date knowledge, understanding the differences and offering an opinion.
Terry, I trust your opinion, if you give one "at large". And include the "what if's".
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Re: New i7 Chips... and a story...

Post by tropicalfish » Mon Mar 02, 2009 4:02 am

I'm not really sure what you mean but I'll give it a go...
Cat1 wrote:The questions are…

I7 core, is there any massive improvement between this and the QX9650 as far as pure processor speed, or even the Q non X series processors?
The Core i7 performs much better than most other processors. The "X" in the QX processors is the Extreme version, their notable difference being that they had unlocked multipliers. Unless you are an extreme overclocker and you have an arm and leg to give away, you won't need it.
Most reviews aren’t apples to apples when it comes to the benchmarking. And as a side note why is Crysis the standard?I don't know why Crysis is used
Finding reviewers or reviews that use FS are nearly non-existant. True I guess... but some things to know: FS (both 9 and X I believe) can not make *FULL* use of SLI or CrossFire. FS9 can only use one core of the processor. FSX with SP1 can use multiple cores (Up to 32 to be exact) and is very CPU dependent.
This i7chip has recently hit the market; mother board offerings are thin but offer quite a bit, but the QX which is holding Newegg value at $1029 has the proven tech with the right board. Not sure what the question is here. But again, you probably won't be needing the QX processors
The i7 920 is almost inclusively, no matter the board reviewed, to have easy clocking abilities to take it to nearly the 4GHz realm if you can dissipate the heat increase. That is, provided you have quality RAM, quality mobo, and quality PSU.
Really, anything above the i7 920 is just a factory OC’ed version of the 920 to begin with. Not quite. There are some differences between them (I don't know the differences)
Not much of a chance to understand the differences between the QX and the i7, except for the cost. i7: 4 cores with hyperthreading capabilities (Think back to P4 with HT, simulated two cores). QX: Lots of money, unlocked multiplier, extreme OC.
Recommendations based on this fact:
The Dell I’m on I upgraded myself; I am looking to get something I can upgrade or tweak for say the next five years.
This is the middle to deep end of the pool, I don’t swim with sharks yet.
Don't take my whole word on everything. It's hard to tell what's the "best bang for buck" without knowing a budget. Different processors (both from AMD and Intel offerings) perform differently at different price ranges, some better than others.
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Post by rd » Mon Mar 02, 2009 7:27 am

Best Bang For Buck theory...

I don't care how much it costs, I just want something that will be "The Cats Meow".

Of lets say 3 CPU's, A-B-C.

A.. You get it's full potential by over clocking.... $1000

B.. Same performance as A at normal clocking.... $500

C.. Same performance as B, but not suitable for gaming... $250

Best Bang For Buck is "B".

Me and Cat1 are basically the same when it comes to money, and spending it where we need to. I don't care how much it costs, I just want it to do what I need it to do.

Don't over think what we want or need. Most of us are in the group of "plug and play", and not interested in the workings, or making it (overclocking it) to do something we don't need or want.

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Post by tropicalfish » Mon Mar 02, 2009 7:40 am

rd wrote:Best Bang For Buck theory...

I don't care how much it costs, I just want something that will be "The Cats Meow".

Of lets say 3 CPU's, A-B-C.

A.. You get it's full potential by over clocking.... $1000

B.. Same performance as A at normal clocking.... $500

C.. Same performance as B, but not suitable for gaming... $250

Best Bang For Buck is "B".


RD
I'm gonna have to argue with you a bit on those three points.

Let's say you take two of the same processors and overclock one of them. The overclocked one will perform better. There isn't really a measurable "full potential."

a QX9650 will perform the same as another QX9650. It only performs better if you overclock it.

If you take for example, an E8500 and overclock it to the speed of an E8600, you will get similar performance at a lower price.

Overclocking though is usually rather complex (which is why I don't do it).

Kinda hard to explain, I'm sick of my own procrastination (lol) and I need some sleep :x
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Post by rd » Mon Mar 02, 2009 10:11 am

Again, you missed the point completely.

Please, do not do anything in life, that requires action.

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Post by viche12345 » Mon Mar 02, 2009 8:35 pm

rd wrote:Again, you missed the point completely.

Please, do not do anything in life, that requires action.

RD
LOL that's college life

im lazy indeed
There is no place like 127.0.0.1

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Post by tropicalfish » Mon Mar 02, 2009 11:53 pm

rd wrote:Best Bang For Buck theory...

I don't care how much it costs, I just want something that will be "The Cats Meow".

Of lets say 3 CPU's, A-B-C.

A.. You get it's full potential by over clocking.... $1000

B.. Same performance as A at normal clocking.... $500

C.. Same performance as B, but not suitable for gaming... $250

Best Bang For Buck is "B".

RD
A, B, and C don't make sense.

B cannot be the same as A. Overclocking a $1k processor will result in SIGNIFICANTLY more performance than a $500 processor.

A $1k processor clocked at normal speeds *usually* does better than a $500 processor clocked at normal speeds.

C. Gaming is pretty much dependent on performance. If we are talking processor prices here, a 250 dollar processor will not have the same performance as a 500 dollar processor.


Cat1: What kind of a computer are you wanting anyway?
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Post by Cat1 » Tue Mar 03, 2009 7:12 pm

Basically a gaming system, along the same lines as what I had posted some time back but now with an i7 core... Me thinks...
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Post by tropicalfish » Tue Mar 03, 2009 11:41 pm

How powerful?

If it makes it easier to decide, What is your planned budget?
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Post by Cat1 » Wed Mar 04, 2009 3:35 am

Terry you would make a good Engineer... :lol: Or Project Manager... How much does it cost...
RD already answered that, I don't care how much it costs for now, this is a paper build. I'm looking for the options from folks that are more up to date on the TECH, not the cost. I can evaluate cost. BOMBARD me with: If you do this you get this, if you do that you get that. I will back fill the cost and see if I puke on it.

Here is the thing, I used to like AMD and gamed with AMD exclusively for years. I also built and pushed quite a few drafting systems that were AMD based.
Don't think of this as a chip argument, it's not. But Intel is my bag now, and for better or worse that's that.

I don't understand the link that newegg allows you to see from the outside, but I will post the link none the less... If I can find it...
I think this is it... https://secure.newegg.com/WishList/MySa ... D=14990367
Last edited by Cat1 on Wed Mar 04, 2009 3:56 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Post by tropicalfish » Wed Mar 04, 2009 3:55 am

My personal recommendation for graphics card:

GFX (Heeshung will obviously disagree with me on this): http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.a ... 6814102801

Don't forget an operating system
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Post by Cat1 » Wed Mar 04, 2009 3:59 am

Ack! The link wasn't to mine... I think I edited it out to the correct one in the post above.

Yep... that's the one... Link above is to mine...
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Post by tropicalfish » Wed Mar 04, 2009 4:14 am

I can't view it.. Is there a way you can make it viewable to people without a Newegg account?
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Post by heeshung » Wed Mar 04, 2009 4:18 am

I think your GTX 295 is an excellent choice. I'm not sure about Enermax PSU's, as I've always felt like they were on the 'cheap' side. Lastly, I'd wait for Windows 7 as it's coming out in a couple months than plop down $180 for Vista Ultimate now.

Everything else looks excellent.
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Post by tropicalfish » Wed Mar 04, 2009 4:28 am

I'm still not able to see the list.
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Post by tropicalfish » Wed Mar 04, 2009 4:39 am

Enermax PSU? Don't go with it.

Go with something from the Corsair line.

EDIT: Excuse the double post.
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Post by tropicalfish » Wed Mar 04, 2009 11:57 pm

Sorry about the triple post, I have no way of deleting posts.

Anyways, I'm using my dad's account to view your list. Some suggestions:

Remove the CPU cooler. You don't need it as the processor already comes with one. Not to mention that the cooler isn't compatible with LGA1366.
The stock cooler will do fine.
Do tell if you will be overclocking, I can recommend some better coolers.

Power supply: You don't need that many watts, and there are other decent PSU's for lower cost. You could really go with something as low as a 550W PSU (bare minimums. Go with at least 600W), but of course, if you want more upgradeability, I recommend these:

Corsair 650W: http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.a ... 6817139005
Corsair 750W: http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.a ... 6817139006
Corsair 850W: http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.a ... 6817139009
Corsair (Modular) 1000W: http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.a ... 6817139007

Monitor: http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.a ... 6824009125

As far as the sound card goes, I honestly don't think there will be a significant audible difference. Sure, the audio will use some CPU load because it's not a dedicated card, the difference should be negligible.
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Post by heeshung » Thu Mar 05, 2009 12:39 am

I somewhat disagree with TFish; you can never have too much power in a PSU. I'd go with nothing less than the TX750. Since your cost is already in the $4K range, I don't think it'd hurt to just go with the 1000W version. As an added bonus, you get bragging rights.
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PC Power & Cooling Turbo-Cool 1KW-SR PSU [80A]
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Post by rd » Thu Mar 05, 2009 6:04 am

Have to agree with heeshung on the PSU. Bare min. would be 750w.

I would also change from the one 1TB HD, to two 500gb HD's. I'm not a big fan on having everything on one HD.

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Post by Cat1 » Thu Mar 05, 2009 7:44 pm

Did ya ever wonder how the 80PLUS ratings are figured out?
I know how it's done with all other things, I call the company and ask for their test results then crunch the numbers...

But this is much easier http://80plus.org/

So far all good info folks, and I appreciate it :wink:
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Post by Cat1 » Sat Mar 07, 2009 2:07 am

heeshung wrote:Lastly, I'd wait for Windows 7 as it's coming out in a couple months than plop down $180 for Vista Ultimate now.
I'm sure there will be "upgrades" available... for a nominal fee of course! And since the offer is on the table, I don't know that I can wait a couple of months. As it is, I have been waiting over a year and a half to upgrade to a new system.
How large of a file is the release of Windows 7 supposed to be or being guessed to be? I am reading that the "Beta is 2.8GB".
I'm thinking of setting the OS and my most used drafting applications, and the other necessities on one SSHD. OCZ has one in a 60GB model that is $99.00 after rebate. :-k

I missed the resolution difference between the BenQ and the Acer monitor, thanks for catching that Tfish.
I also took Hees and your advice on the power supply and swapped over to the Corsair 1KW, I also dropped the sound card and replaced with the 60GB SSHD mentioned above. The MB does what that sound card will do out of the box anyway as I read real deep into the specifications.

And with all you folks help it cut the bottom line a bit too. And that doesn't hurt at all.
Thanks folks :D
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Post by tropicalfish » Sat Mar 07, 2009 5:38 am

Hmm, any reason why you are going with the three sets of 2x2GB RAM?

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.a ... 6820145224

Two sets of those might be a cheaper alternative for you?

Oh, and any purpose for the SSD? It seems awfully expensive for the capacity.
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Post by Cat1 » Tue Mar 10, 2009 12:08 am

tropicalfish wrote:Hmm, any reason why you are going with the three sets of 2x2GB RAM?

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.a ... 6820145224

Two sets of those might be a cheaper alternative for you?
To me, it's about the speed, and possible overclocking capability. I may not use it but I'd like to have the option...This is going to take a while. I guess that is one of the problems with beer goggles. I may have found something even better, for less cost.
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.a ... 6820104084
tropicalfish wrote:Oh, and any purpose for the SSD? It seems awfully expensive for the capacity.
The only purpose for this would be to hold the OS.
I am admittedly not that familiar with Vista, and I haven't even seen a screen shot of Win7. But the reports are that booting times are literally seconds, like 2 to 5 seconds for the system to be fully up and running. Apparently there may need to be some tweaking done to optimize the OS to totally use a SSD, again I'm not that smart on it yet. But the boot times sound incredible, my system now takes on the order of 5 minutes to boot up and it's not all due to stuff in the start-up folder.

Stay tuned, I'm sure there will be more changes.
Oh and again, as always, thanks for the help... The questions make me think and do deeper research :D
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mel wilson
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Post by mel wilson » Tue Mar 10, 2009 12:24 am

tropicalfish wrote: Apparently there may need to be some tweaking done to optimize the OS to totally use a SSD, again I'm not that smart on it yet. But the boot times sound incredible, my system now takes on the order of 5 minutes to boot up and it's not all due to stuff in the start-up folder.
Need more wood on the fire Clay, sounds like the steam pressure has dropped below 2lb PSI :wink:

Mel.
http://www.mid-suffolk-radio-modellers.com/index.html

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tropicalfish
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Post by tropicalfish » Tue Mar 10, 2009 2:00 am

Quoted the wrong guy, Mel. :P

I have my new computer ordered (See sig).
Should receive it and have it set up by the weekend. I'll report to you my startup times then.
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Computer Specs
Antec 300 - Case
Corsair CMPSU-650TX 650W - PSU
GIGABYTE GA-MA790GP-UD4H AMD 790GX - Motherboard
AMD Phenom II X4 940 Deneb 3.0GHz Quad-Core - CPU
G.SKILL 4GB 240-Pin DDR2-800 - RAM
SAPPHIRE ATI Radeon HD 4870 512MB - Graphics Card
Western Digital Caviar Black WD6401AALS 640GB - Hard Drive
SAMSUNG 22X DVD±R DVD Burner - Optical Drive
Microsoft Windows Vista Home Premium SP1 64-bit - Operating System

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Cat1
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Post by Cat1 » Tue Mar 10, 2009 2:47 am

mel wilson wrote:Need more wood on the fire Clay, sounds like the steam pressure has dropped below 2lb PSI :wink:

Mel.
Trust me... That's a good thing today... I got into it with some folks today and it was all me being :twisted:
Now... RELAXING... just designing a system... sipping a brew, listening to ELO Discography and everything will be fine, no I swear, really, everything will be fine.
Nothing a little Ma Ma Ma Bell, and Mr. Bluesky won't cure. :wink:
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If you want to learn how to fly IFR and land with ILS or have any questions about IFR/ILS. Click this link and the information is there: http://www.faa.gov/library/manuals/avia ... _handbook/

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tropicalfish
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Post by tropicalfish » Sat Mar 14, 2009 7:57 pm

Startup time including BIOS check and stuff: ~one minute.
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Computer Specs
Antec 300 - Case
Corsair CMPSU-650TX 650W - PSU
GIGABYTE GA-MA790GP-UD4H AMD 790GX - Motherboard
AMD Phenom II X4 940 Deneb 3.0GHz Quad-Core - CPU
G.SKILL 4GB 240-Pin DDR2-800 - RAM
SAPPHIRE ATI Radeon HD 4870 512MB - Graphics Card
Western Digital Caviar Black WD6401AALS 640GB - Hard Drive
SAMSUNG 22X DVD±R DVD Burner - Optical Drive
Microsoft Windows Vista Home Premium SP1 64-bit - Operating System

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Cat1
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Post by Cat1 » Sun Mar 15, 2009 6:14 pm

Gents, I'd like to thank all of you again for your input and your help.
As of 15 minutes ago all but the memory has been ordered. I had to do a couple of last minute changes since both the HDD's and the memory was out of stock. I bumped the drives up to the next available, and it looks like I will just have to wait on the memory. The big item I really wanted was the GTX 295 and I called about that one last week to see if a time could be offered for resupply. The memory shows as: Out Of Stock ETA: 3/17/2009 9:54:00 AM, but then again it was supposed to be in last week as well.
All in all I'm pretty stoked \:D/
Image
If you want to learn how to fly IFR and land with ILS or have any questions about IFR/ILS. Click this link and the information is there: http://www.faa.gov/library/manuals/avia ... _handbook/

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