Power Supplies

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Power Supplies

Post by CessnaPilot09 » Wed Mar 25, 2009 7:04 am

Hey guys. I'm still relatively new to building, but so far it's been a breeze for me. I'm a good learner 8) . But there is one piece of information I can't seem to find anywhere! I've looked all over my system for this info and have tried several web sites, but I can't find out if there's a way to tell how much of the power supply is being used. I found a list of certain peripherals and approximately how much wattage they use on howstuffworks, but it was all older processers and such and I knew today's stuff probably uses more power than older stuff.

I have a 600W PSU and want a stronger graphics card, the NVidia 9800GTX+ to be specific. I currently have in:

ASUS M3N78 Pro mother board with an AMD dual core 3.0Gz processer

2GB DDR2 RAM

SATA 250GB Hard drive (RPM unkown)

Sony DVD-RW Drive

NVidia 9600GSO graphics card, 768MB, 580mHz core

All temperatures stay well below 110 degrees Farenheit.

Does anyone have an idea how much wattage is being used, and if it would be safe for me to buy and install the 9800GTX+? Or if there's a way to check on the wattage usage?

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Post by rd » Wed Mar 25, 2009 8:10 am

One thing you have to remember. Just because it's newer, doesn't mean it needs more power. Some things use power more efficiently, than others.

But, I would put your system in the 650+ PSU category.

This may sound stupid, but you should be fine with 600. It really depends on what brand it is, and whether it can sustain the amp loads that your system needs.

If it's a good/decent brand PSU, then you should be fine, with the NVidia 9800GTX+.

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Post by Cat1 » Wed Mar 25, 2009 6:07 pm

The manufacturers web sites will usually have that type of information somewhere, if not a call to tech support may be able to get you the answer.

RD is correct, newer doesn't mean more power required. In fact with some components it's the opposite.
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Post by tropicalfish » Wed Mar 25, 2009 10:53 pm

600W is more than sufficient.
What brand is your CURRENT power supply?
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Antec 300 - Case
Corsair CMPSU-650TX 650W - PSU
GIGABYTE GA-MA790GP-UD4H AMD 790GX - Motherboard
AMD Phenom II X4 940 Deneb 3.0GHz Quad-Core - CPU
G.SKILL 4GB 240-Pin DDR2-800 - RAM
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Post by CessnaPilot09 » Wed Mar 25, 2009 11:51 pm

It's made by Ultra. Not an OEM.

To Tropicalfish: I'll check their web site for that info. I completely forgot about that! :lol:

Me thinks you have the Cat and the Fish confused

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Post by tropicalfish » Thu Mar 26, 2009 12:50 am

CessnaPilot09 wrote:It's made by Ultra. Not an OEM.

To Tropicalfish: I'll check their web site for that info. I completely forgot about that! :lol:
Your current power supply inside your computer is made by Ultra?
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Computer Specs
Antec 300 - Case
Corsair CMPSU-650TX 650W - PSU
GIGABYTE GA-MA790GP-UD4H AMD 790GX - Motherboard
AMD Phenom II X4 940 Deneb 3.0GHz Quad-Core - CPU
G.SKILL 4GB 240-Pin DDR2-800 - RAM
SAPPHIRE ATI Radeon HD 4870 512MB - Graphics Card
Western Digital Caviar Black WD6401AALS 640GB - Hard Drive
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Post by rd » Thu Mar 26, 2009 5:07 am

tropicalfish wrote:600W is more than sufficient.
What brand is your CURRENT power supply?
Hey Fish, the Manufacturer requires a minimum of 450 watts with the NVidia 9800GTX+.

600 watts should be the minimum. Therefore, it is not "more than sufficient".

Rule #1: Always get a PSU at least 100 watts more than is required. No brainer there. :roll:

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Post by tropicalfish » Thu Mar 26, 2009 5:27 am

rd wrote:
tropicalfish wrote:600W is more than sufficient.
What brand is your CURRENT power supply?
Hey Fish, the Manufacturer requires a minimum of 450 watts with the NVidia 9800GTX+.

600 watts should be the minimum. Therefore, it is not "more than sufficient".

Rule #1: Always get a PSU at least 100 watts more than is required. No brainer there. :roll:

RD
It *recommends* that much, which would be on a general system including processor and other drives, not to mention that his processor isn't all that power hungry either.

The graphics card will use no more than 250W. The wattage requirement is as a safety measure to ensure that the amperages are sufficient. (Which he should have at least 30A on the 12V)

I don't know if Ultra is a good PSU manufacturer. What model is it?
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Computer Specs
Antec 300 - Case
Corsair CMPSU-650TX 650W - PSU
GIGABYTE GA-MA790GP-UD4H AMD 790GX - Motherboard
AMD Phenom II X4 940 Deneb 3.0GHz Quad-Core - CPU
G.SKILL 4GB 240-Pin DDR2-800 - RAM
SAPPHIRE ATI Radeon HD 4870 512MB - Graphics Card
Western Digital Caviar Black WD6401AALS 640GB - Hard Drive
SAMSUNG 22X DVD±R DVD Burner - Optical Drive
Microsoft Windows Vista Home Premium SP1 64-bit - Operating System

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Post by heeshung » Thu Mar 26, 2009 5:30 am

Ultra? I'd say it's just right for your system. However, if you add any more peripherals, you might want to start looking at higher wattages. For now, the 600W should be no problem for your computer.
Intel Core 2 Quad CPU Q9450 @ 2.66GHz (4 CPUs)
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Samsung Spinpoint F1 HD753LJ 750GB 32MB Cache
2x NVIDIA GeForce 8800GTS 512MB G92 Core in SLI
PC Power & Cooling Turbo-Cool 1KW-SR PSU [80A]
Acer X223W 22" 16:10 Widescreen TFT LCD
Azalia HD Audio Connected to 5.1 Channel Harmon/Kardon Surround System and Plantronics GameCom 377 Headset
Logitech G15 Gaming Keyboard
Razer Lachesis 4000dpi 3G Laser [Philips Twin-Eye] Wraith Red Edition Gaming Mouse
EVGA nForce 780i SLI FTW Special Edition Mainboard 132-YW-E178-A1
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Post by rd » Thu Mar 26, 2009 5:38 am

tropicalfish wrote:
rd wrote:
tropicalfish wrote:600W is more than sufficient.
What brand is your CURRENT power supply?
Hey Fish, the Manufacturer requires a minimum of 450 watts with the NVidia 9800GTX+.

600 watts should be the minimum. Therefore, it is not "more than sufficient".

Rule #1: Always get a PSU at least 100 watts more than is required. No brainer there. :roll:

RD
It *recommends* that much, which would be on a general system including processor and other drives, not to mention that his processor isn't all that power hungry either.

The graphics card will use no more than 250W. The wattage requirement is as a safety measure to ensure that the amperages are sufficient. (Which he should have at least 30A on the 12V)

I don't know if Ultra is a good PSU manufacturer. What model is it?
It does not *recommend* 450W, it *REQUIRES* a minimum of 450W: http://www.nvidia.com/object/product_ge ... us_us.html

Look at the last box for power. And yes, it only uses 141W max.

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Post by tropicalfish » Thu Mar 26, 2009 6:05 am

rd wrote:
tropicalfish wrote:
rd wrote: Hey Fish, the Manufacturer requires a minimum of 450 watts with the NVidia 9800GTX+.

600 watts should be the minimum. Therefore, it is not "more than sufficient".

Rule #1: Always get a PSU at least 100 watts more than is required. No brainer there. :roll:

RD
It *recommends* that much, which would be on a general system including processor and other drives, not to mention that his processor isn't all that power hungry either.

The graphics card will use no more than 250W. The wattage requirement is as a safety measure to ensure that the amperages are sufficient. (Which he should have at least 30A on the 12V)

I don't know if Ultra is a good PSU manufacturer. What model is it?
It does not *recommend* 450W, it *REQUIRES* a minimum of 450W: http://www.nvidia.com/object/product_ge ... us_us.html

Look at the last box for power. And yes, it only uses 141W max.

RD
That just simply means that total system power supply CANNOT be below 450W.

I give up. Your narrow vision is missing the big picture. RD
lol.
Last edited by tropicalfish on Fri Mar 27, 2009 1:38 am, edited 2 times in total.
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Computer Specs
Antec 300 - Case
Corsair CMPSU-650TX 650W - PSU
GIGABYTE GA-MA790GP-UD4H AMD 790GX - Motherboard
AMD Phenom II X4 940 Deneb 3.0GHz Quad-Core - CPU
G.SKILL 4GB 240-Pin DDR2-800 - RAM
SAPPHIRE ATI Radeon HD 4870 512MB - Graphics Card
Western Digital Caviar Black WD6401AALS 640GB - Hard Drive
SAMSUNG 22X DVD±R DVD Burner - Optical Drive
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Post by CessnaPilot09 » Thu Mar 26, 2009 6:41 pm

Man, I lost track of what you all were saying. And sorry about the mix up with the fish and the cat, I tend to do that a lot :x

From what I gather, and I believe is true, a manufacturer's recommended wattage for their product is a safety measure, huh? I guess I can believe that, it only makes sense.

Alright, here's a new question: What would happen should I exceed the wattage my power supply can handle? Would it meltdown or would I see a warning message describing an overload?

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Post by tropicalfish » Thu Mar 26, 2009 10:34 pm

CessnaPilot09 wrote:Man, I lost track of what you all were saying. And sorry about the mix up with the fish and the cat, I tend to do that a lot :x

From what I gather, and I believe is true, a manufacturer's recommended wattage for their product is a safety measure, huh? I guess I can believe that, it only makes sense.

Alright, here's a new question: What would happen should I exceed the wattage my power supply can handle? Would it meltdown or would I see a warning message describing an overload?
Your power supply (if it is a quality one) will cut off.

Your power supply should run your current CPU with a new graphics card without a hitch.

Do you have a model number for your power supply?
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Computer Specs
Antec 300 - Case
Corsair CMPSU-650TX 650W - PSU
GIGABYTE GA-MA790GP-UD4H AMD 790GX - Motherboard
AMD Phenom II X4 940 Deneb 3.0GHz Quad-Core - CPU
G.SKILL 4GB 240-Pin DDR2-800 - RAM
SAPPHIRE ATI Radeon HD 4870 512MB - Graphics Card
Western Digital Caviar Black WD6401AALS 640GB - Hard Drive
SAMSUNG 22X DVD±R DVD Burner - Optical Drive
Microsoft Windows Vista Home Premium SP1 64-bit - Operating System

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Post by rd » Fri Mar 27, 2009 4:47 am

Which is the reason I go by Rule #1.

You can't have too much power. Your system will use what it needs. But for your system, I would stay with your 600w PSU, as I said earlier.

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Post by CessnaPilot09 » Fri Mar 27, 2009 5:04 am

My system runs cool, at about 89 degrees Farenheit usually. While running games, like FS and DOOM3, I can come back to find the temperature a few degrees higher. I'm not sure if heat is a major player in determining the PSU's load, but I do know higher wattages in electronics or electrical devices is usually tagged with heat as a by-product.

P.S. Would anyone be willing to recommend a personal favorite motherboard/CPU/PSU combination? PM me if you've got any suggestions.

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Post by tropicalfish » Fri Mar 27, 2009 7:08 am

CessnaPilot09 wrote:My system runs cool, at about 89 degrees Farenheit usually. While running games, like FS and DOOM3, I can come back to find the temperature a few degrees higher. I'm not sure if heat is a major player in determining the PSU's load, but I do know higher wattages in electronics or electrical devices is usually tagged with heat as a by-product.

P.S. Would anyone be willing to recommend a personal favorite motherboard/CPU/PSU combination? PM me if you've got any suggestions.
Are you planning on a bigger upgrade? What's your budget like and what performance are you looking for?
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Computer Specs
Antec 300 - Case
Corsair CMPSU-650TX 650W - PSU
GIGABYTE GA-MA790GP-UD4H AMD 790GX - Motherboard
AMD Phenom II X4 940 Deneb 3.0GHz Quad-Core - CPU
G.SKILL 4GB 240-Pin DDR2-800 - RAM
SAPPHIRE ATI Radeon HD 4870 512MB - Graphics Card
Western Digital Caviar Black WD6401AALS 640GB - Hard Drive
SAMSUNG 22X DVD±R DVD Burner - Optical Drive
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Post by Cat1 » Sat Mar 28, 2009 12:04 am

CessnaPilot09 wrote:My system runs cool, at about 89 degrees Fahrenheit usually.
Heat is a by-product of efficiency or more correctly, inefficiency. The less efficient any component is the more heat it gives off in relation to the power being provided to state it in the most basic and general of terms.
Heat and inefficiency is the enemy.
This is why you see super cooled systems done up by the extreme tweakers using liquid nitrogen and liquid helium to cool their systems. They don't need high wattage power supplies and components because electrical/electronic components become more efficient the closer to absolute zero you can get them to.
CessnaPilot09 wrote:P.S. Would anyone be willing to recommend a personal favorite motherboard/CPU/PSU combination? PM me if you've got any suggestions.
Motherboards are a BIG option, with many other options, that option other options. There is not a single answer that can be given in my opinion that can answer that portion of the question alone.

Most people like to think of computers as pieces, and only as pieces (Motherboard, RAM, HDD, CD Graphics Card). The don't normally think about the WHOLE system.
If you don't take the time to learn how one thing may affect another you could have a machine full of big money latest and greatest components, that is going to not work well. Yes, sometimes a simple video card upgrade, or the inclusion of more RAM can make a drastic difference, but not always.
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Post by CessnaPilot09 » Sat Mar 28, 2009 2:07 am

Yes, I have plan on upgrading (already....), but really all I want is a motherboard with two PCIe slots so I can SLI two video cards, an AM2+ processer bed, and at least 8GB total system memory. If anyone has suggestions for other processers, feel free to tell me. But I lke my 3Ghz AMD.

My budget is very tight right now because I am about to move and need to save for a deposit on another apartment, so I won't be buying anything immediately

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Post by tropicalfish » Sat Mar 28, 2009 3:36 am

If you are tight on money, push for a better processor instead of SLI.
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Computer Specs
Antec 300 - Case
Corsair CMPSU-650TX 650W - PSU
GIGABYTE GA-MA790GP-UD4H AMD 790GX - Motherboard
AMD Phenom II X4 940 Deneb 3.0GHz Quad-Core - CPU
G.SKILL 4GB 240-Pin DDR2-800 - RAM
SAPPHIRE ATI Radeon HD 4870 512MB - Graphics Card
Western Digital Caviar Black WD6401AALS 640GB - Hard Drive
SAMSUNG 22X DVD±R DVD Burner - Optical Drive
Microsoft Windows Vista Home Premium SP1 64-bit - Operating System

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Post by CessnaPilot09 » Sat Mar 28, 2009 4:57 am

Aw man, but so far I haven't found a processor for the AM2+ Socket that's faster than 3Ghz.

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Post by CessnaPilot09 » Sat Mar 28, 2009 5:01 am

Wait a sec, I forgot about one thing......memory! No, that doesn't mean I need to upgrade my brain's memory (though I wish I could). :lol:

Won't more memory improve graphical performance even though the video card has its own memory?

And what's this I hear about only being able to use 3 gigs maximum memory on XP? Is that tue?

(This topic has went from Power Supplies to Video Power....) :roll:

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Post by rd » Sat Mar 28, 2009 6:48 am

The break down with XP is maximum 3 gigs of memory. The architecture of it will not accept anything more than 3 gigs.

To get above that, requires VISTA.

RD

EDIT: This refers to the 32bit XP, not the 64bit XP and VISTA.
Last edited by rd on Sat Mar 28, 2009 9:24 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Post by heeshung » Sat Mar 28, 2009 12:47 pm

rd wrote:The break down with XP is maximum 3 gigs of memory. The architecture of it will not accept anything more than 3 gigs.

To get above that, requires VISTA.

RD
Thats only XP x86. XP x64 can do the same.
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2x NVIDIA GeForce 8800GTS 512MB G92 Core in SLI
PC Power & Cooling Turbo-Cool 1KW-SR PSU [80A]
Acer X223W 22" 16:10 Widescreen TFT LCD
Azalia HD Audio Connected to 5.1 Channel Harmon/Kardon Surround System and Plantronics GameCom 377 Headset
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Post by 121a » Sat Mar 28, 2009 3:56 pm

i didn't read the whole thread thoughtfully but if you system is like mine in my sig, then you'll be fine. I DO recommend getting a Corsair 650w or 750w, I chose the 650w because i'm not going to do SLI. I run everything just fine too. The reason i say Corsair is because they have a lifetime warrenty, usually have rebates, and are built like a tank.

FYI: I just read this yesterday, SLI (with 9800GTX and above) will be bottlenecked by almost any CPU. The only CPUs that can handle the new Nvidia cards in SLI and TRI-SLI are the i7 core Intels. Thought that was pretty interesting.
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Post by tropicalfish » Sat Mar 28, 2009 7:58 pm

RD: XP 64 and Vista 64 support more than 3GB's. It's the 32 bit operating systems that don't.

Cessnapilot: Clockspeed isn't everything. It's alot on architecture. Are you planning to "upgrade" on a new computer, or to swap out parts on your old computer to make it better?
If you want SLI, think of at least getting an Intel E8x00 or an Intel quad. If not, then the newer AMD Phenom II's, as these processors are all based on the newer 45nm build.
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Computer Specs
Antec 300 - Case
Corsair CMPSU-650TX 650W - PSU
GIGABYTE GA-MA790GP-UD4H AMD 790GX - Motherboard
AMD Phenom II X4 940 Deneb 3.0GHz Quad-Core - CPU
G.SKILL 4GB 240-Pin DDR2-800 - RAM
SAPPHIRE ATI Radeon HD 4870 512MB - Graphics Card
Western Digital Caviar Black WD6401AALS 640GB - Hard Drive
SAMSUNG 22X DVD±R DVD Burner - Optical Drive
Microsoft Windows Vista Home Premium SP1 64-bit - Operating System

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Post by rd » Sat Mar 28, 2009 9:20 pm

@ T-fish and heeshung......

No kidding guys, I know that. He is also running XP 32 bit, and not 64 bit.

Therefore, my answer is correct. :twisted:

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Post by CessnaPilot09 » Sat Mar 28, 2009 9:33 pm

Alright, you lost me again. How do we know for sure my OS is 32-bit?
I wouldn't know myself, I don't know how to find out (hint hint....)

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Post by tropicalfish » Sat Mar 28, 2009 10:41 pm

Chances are you have a 32-bit operating system if your computer came with 3GB's of RAM or less.

To find out, go to Start -> Run -> type: CMD -> type: systeminfo

When the thing finishes loading, look for the line:

System Type. If it says x86, then it is 32-bit. If it says x64, then it is 64-bit.
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Computer Specs
Antec 300 - Case
Corsair CMPSU-650TX 650W - PSU
GIGABYTE GA-MA790GP-UD4H AMD 790GX - Motherboard
AMD Phenom II X4 940 Deneb 3.0GHz Quad-Core - CPU
G.SKILL 4GB 240-Pin DDR2-800 - RAM
SAPPHIRE ATI Radeon HD 4870 512MB - Graphics Card
Western Digital Caviar Black WD6401AALS 640GB - Hard Drive
SAMSUNG 22X DVD±R DVD Burner - Optical Drive
Microsoft Windows Vista Home Premium SP1 64-bit - Operating System

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Post by CessnaPilot09 » Sun Mar 29, 2009 12:51 am

Thanks, I'm on it.

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Post by Cat1 » Sun Mar 29, 2009 7:01 pm

If you bought this system off the shelf, chances are that it came with a 32 bit OS, OEM's are simply not going to spend the money on a 64 bit OS unless you requested it.
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If you want to learn how to fly IFR and land with ILS or have any questions about IFR/ILS. Click this link and the information is there: http://www.faa.gov/library/manuals/avia ... _handbook/

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