Not cleared to land

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Boldpilot
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Not cleared to land

Post by Boldpilot » Sun Nov 25, 2007 8:21 am

On some approaches the "Not cleared to land" is called by ATC after touchdown "and to clear the runway " This is after the runway info, ect, has been called by ATC .Do I ignore the call ,Go around again ,or Use my discretion to carry on to the gate.
Does this happen in real life or is it the microsoft programmer being cute.BP

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Post by Behrentzs » Sun Nov 25, 2007 9:11 am

I have only got that message when I have had contacted ATC, but havn't get clerance to land or whatever. I would just go around and then try to get a clerance again.

And I don't think that stuff happen in real life very often :lol:

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Post by skipperdan » Sun Nov 25, 2007 10:54 am

I have experience this message whenever I am cleared to land on a specific runway but I try to land on a different runway.

This would also happen whenever you try to land at a "Controlled Airport" without obtaining ATC clearance to land. 8) 8)
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Post by SU37Berkut » Sun Nov 25, 2007 3:50 pm

Dear Skipperdan,

It is my experience that when you are cleared to land on a certain runway, and you don't land on that specific runway, even if it is a parallel runway, they will tell you that you were not cleared to land.
This is because in real life if you land on a runway you were not cleared to land on, you may have someone come down on top of you. Also in real life, there is the safety factor of wake turbulence to worry about.
If you land without ever having contacted ATC, you will not get anyone to say anything about it, even if it is a controlled airport.
However, if you have recently contacted that tower, they will tell you that you are not cleared to land.

Just my experience.

Cheers and have a nice day,
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Post by martinmax69 » Sun Nov 25, 2007 9:18 pm

Yep...do this all the time.When you land just move to the taxiway and ATC will then ask you to "contact ground" and then "Ground" will give you the option to park at gate etc .I think ATC will ask you about 3 times to "clear the runway".

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Post by skipperdan » Sun Nov 25, 2007 10:14 pm

SU37Berkut wrote:Dear Skipperdan,


If you land without ever having contacted ATC, you will not get anyone to say anything about it, even if it is a controlled airport.
Whenever you attempt to land at a Controlled Airport. you'all had better contact ATC or else you will be in big trouble (unless you have entered an appropriate squawk code indicating that you have radio problems.)

Worse case, you will be reported to the FAA which is something that you do not want to happen. 8) 8)
I AM NOT A PILOT. I JUST LOVE AVIATION.

CAPTAIN--CIVIL AIR PATROL
...Emergency Services Training Officer
...Instructor at the Florida Wing Conference 2012.
...Mission Observer (front right seat)
...Air Operations Branch Director
...Flew several times in a Cessna 182 with G1000 (maintaining the MFD).
...Attended two day class conducted by the Air Force Rescue Coordination Center
...Completed training for Flight Line Marshall, Flight Release Officer, and Mission Radio Operator.

You should visit your local Civil Air Patrol Squadron and complete an application for membership.
.
Please watch this video that my son made of a Discovery Flight from Albert Whitted Airport (my home base). http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-EMUg1jiCss
.
Please check out scenery that I helped develop for Albert Whitted Airport http://www.surclaro.com/download.php?query=KSPG&op=search&cid=
.
Check out this article in Air and Space Magazine concerning Albert Whitted Airport:
http://www.airspacemag.com/history-of-flight/The-Airport-That-Wouldnt-Die.html

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Post by skipperdan » Mon Nov 26, 2007 2:15 am

Here is something that documents my above statement:

The basic procedure for Approach Control, Class B airspace, Class C airspace and, TERSA's, is the same except Class B airspace cannot be entered without clearance. Class C airspace requires only that communication be established. If the proper frequency is unknown call a FSS for aid or use the tower frequency tab of the sectional. "Bay Approach Cessna 1234X over" This callup is necessary because work procedures may require the controller to delay recontact with you until he has finished some other operation. On contact give ATC your position, type aircraft, intentions or request. Be sure to write down the squawk before trying to enter it into the transponder. Set the transponder on standby (stby) before resetting the assigned code; then place to ALT. Acknowledge the squawk by repeating the code as is done with all headings, frequencies or traffic. "Radar Contact" should be acknowledged. On being given a squawk turn the transponder to standby (stby) before resetting the code. IDENT only if commanded.

Check out this liink:
http://www.4vfr.com/?goto=view_article& ... cle_key=89
.
.
I AM NOT A PILOT. I JUST LOVE AVIATION.

CAPTAIN--CIVIL AIR PATROL
...Emergency Services Training Officer
...Instructor at the Florida Wing Conference 2012.
...Mission Observer (front right seat)
...Air Operations Branch Director
...Flew several times in a Cessna 182 with G1000 (maintaining the MFD).
...Attended two day class conducted by the Air Force Rescue Coordination Center
...Completed training for Flight Line Marshall, Flight Release Officer, and Mission Radio Operator.

You should visit your local Civil Air Patrol Squadron and complete an application for membership.
.
Please watch this video that my son made of a Discovery Flight from Albert Whitted Airport (my home base). http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-EMUg1jiCss
.
Please check out scenery that I helped develop for Albert Whitted Airport http://www.surclaro.com/download.php?query=KSPG&op=search&cid=
.
Check out this article in Air and Space Magazine concerning Albert Whitted Airport:
http://www.airspacemag.com/history-of-flight/The-Airport-That-Wouldnt-Die.html

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Post by pirabee » Mon Nov 26, 2007 12:35 pm

Yep...do this all the time.When you land just move to the taxiway and ATC will then ask you to "contact ground" and then "Ground" will give you the option to park at gate etc .I think ATC will ask you about 3 times to "clear the runway.
My experience with regards to the "3 times" part is quite different.They (ATC) usually go on and on ad nausea until my main wheels are no longer on the runway track.I suggest the manufacturers (in a follow-up product)reduce that heckling tower-talk to something far more reasonable.To be told twice or thrice with sufficient intervals in between would be more appropriate instead of that screechy irritating nagging I get each time my speed drops below 50knots after touch-down. 8)

Edit, fixed quote and tense and spelling errors

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Post by cloakedspirit » Wed Nov 28, 2007 10:42 am

I was on final approach to Eglington Airport, (Northern Ireland), the other day, i got clearence to land on the only runway they had. As i was about 2 miles out they gave clearence for another aircraft to take off.

There was no way i was going around again as i was low on fuel and had thought the winds of the north for so long, needless to say there was a mid air collision.

Stupid controllers. :cry:

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Post by Denholm » Wed Nov 28, 2007 4:52 pm

Did they say, "Cleared for the ILS Approach Runway ##" or, "Cleared to land Runway ##"?

There is a significant difference between the two, and if the second is spoken on my FS2004, the runway is shutdown to any aircraft on the ground effective immediately until the aircraft exits the runway.
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Post by martinmax69 » Thu Nov 29, 2007 8:51 pm

What I do if there is a back-log of AI planes both landing and taking off is......Pause the game,go into 'options' and and make the sim go 8x faster....then go back to 'options' and revert back to normal speed and un-pause.

This then 'resets' AI and I can then land.
Last edited by martinmax69 on Thu Nov 29, 2007 10:13 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Post by FSPilot06 » Thu Nov 29, 2007 10:21 pm

Lordy I'm always late to these. Yes, I've gotten the "Not cleared to land, please exit the runway." call a few times. I don't understand....I get landing clearance, then I am told to exit the runway.

My only idea at this point would be that maybe ATC expects you to land on a certain portion of the runway (idealy 1/3).
Flying is not dangerous. If you don't trust something that has to be supported by air, stay out of a car unless it has solid tires. And believe me, those kind of tires don't ride good at all.

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Post by Cat1 » Thu Nov 29, 2007 11:56 pm

BP,
I too have heard this but it is usually when I either missed a "Go Around" call or intentionally when I just need to end a flight on the ground. I usually just let it go and turn off on the taxi way, this is one of the beauties of this being a Sim and not real life.
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Not cleared to land

Post by Boldpilot » Fri Nov 30, 2007 12:03 am

Hi, I always obey the go-around instruction but when I get the, "not cleared to land" just before touchdown and my landing is at it's most vulnerable and there is no traffic in front of me ,I ignore it .Thats why I am an Old and Bold Pilot,eh,eh.

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Post by FSPilot06 » Fri Nov 30, 2007 3:02 am

I here ya. Or maybe the problem is the most obvious.......a fault in the ATC design. That only make since to me.
Flying is not dangerous. If you don't trust something that has to be supported by air, stay out of a car unless it has solid tires. And believe me, those kind of tires don't ride good at all.

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Post by skipperdan » Fri Nov 30, 2007 4:56 pm

BoldPilot:

At least when you reach our age, we are smart enough not to use the expression STUPID ATC,
I AM NOT A PILOT. I JUST LOVE AVIATION.

CAPTAIN--CIVIL AIR PATROL
...Emergency Services Training Officer
...Instructor at the Florida Wing Conference 2012.
...Mission Observer (front right seat)
...Air Operations Branch Director
...Flew several times in a Cessna 182 with G1000 (maintaining the MFD).
...Attended two day class conducted by the Air Force Rescue Coordination Center
...Completed training for Flight Line Marshall, Flight Release Officer, and Mission Radio Operator.

You should visit your local Civil Air Patrol Squadron and complete an application for membership.
.
Please watch this video that my son made of a Discovery Flight from Albert Whitted Airport (my home base). http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-EMUg1jiCss
.
Please check out scenery that I helped develop for Albert Whitted Airport http://www.surclaro.com/download.php?query=KSPG&op=search&cid=
.
Check out this article in Air and Space Magazine concerning Albert Whitted Airport:
http://www.airspacemag.com/history-of-flight/The-Airport-That-Wouldnt-Die.html

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Post by Denholm » Fri Nov 30, 2007 5:25 pm

He is referring to the AI ATC as being stupid, which I agree with him if he gets the clearance to land and after landing on the correct runway gets told, "You were not cleared to land!"
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Post by FSPilot06 » Fri Nov 30, 2007 8:01 pm

Yes, AI ATC on flight sim does seem kinda "stupid" at times. However, in real life flight, your best bet is to trust the controller.

As far as "You were not cleared to land" goes, I do remember this one time when I set up an approach and thought I heard the name "Cessna" on the radio. After I had landed and was told I was not cleared, there WAS a Cessna Caravan on the runway and I just about crashed into it. Well, I THOUGHT they was calling me..... :?
Flying is not dangerous. If you don't trust something that has to be supported by air, stay out of a car unless it has solid tires. And believe me, those kind of tires don't ride good at all.

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Post by rd » Sat Dec 01, 2007 8:33 am

Not trying to step on any body's toes here, but why in the heck is this locked???

Seems to be a valid issue with ATC, and the wrong commands, or irregular commands, that are being given, are confusing to "The Members".

If this was a sim, then ATC would be right 100% of the time. But it isn't.

The distance between this and real life, is farther than you can see at night.

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Not cleared to land

Post by Boldpilot » Sat Dec 01, 2007 8:56 am

I really appreciate ATC giving me instructions when I'm trying to land in grotty weather and at night and I know the hills around are higher than the airport. Then I really obey instructions .
The ATC lets you off easy after *beep* you out for not having permissions , they could say, "Report to ATC after parking".
Remember all you pilots, you can think what you like, but cannot say what you like ,ask a Marine.
BP

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Post by skipperdan » Sat Dec 01, 2007 9:17 pm

RD:

I locked this topic to prevent myself from making any further critical comments. I respect your decision to unlock the topic. Therefore, I just removed my criticisms. 8) 8)
I AM NOT A PILOT. I JUST LOVE AVIATION.

CAPTAIN--CIVIL AIR PATROL
...Emergency Services Training Officer
...Instructor at the Florida Wing Conference 2012.
...Mission Observer (front right seat)
...Air Operations Branch Director
...Flew several times in a Cessna 182 with G1000 (maintaining the MFD).
...Attended two day class conducted by the Air Force Rescue Coordination Center
...Completed training for Flight Line Marshall, Flight Release Officer, and Mission Radio Operator.

You should visit your local Civil Air Patrol Squadron and complete an application for membership.
.
Please watch this video that my son made of a Discovery Flight from Albert Whitted Airport (my home base). http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-EMUg1jiCss
.
Please check out scenery that I helped develop for Albert Whitted Airport http://www.surclaro.com/download.php?query=KSPG&op=search&cid=
.
Check out this article in Air and Space Magazine concerning Albert Whitted Airport:
http://www.airspacemag.com/history-of-flight/The-Airport-That-Wouldnt-Die.html

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Not cleared to land

Post by Boldpilot » Sat Dec 01, 2007 10:02 pm

Well done Skipper you should have been a politician. BP

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real ATC...

Post by bromster » Mon Dec 03, 2007 1:19 pm

Hey...

Just some insight as to what happens in real life if anyone's interested... if not... Just some insight as to what happens in real life ;)


The Tower Controller is not qualified to work radar sectors, so the approach controller will be the one to clear you for the approach:

1)APP: "American 123, turn left heading 240, cleared ILS approach runway 21L"
2)APP: "American 123, contact tower 118.1".

After the aircraft contacts the tower, one of 2 things will happen... If there is traffic on final approach or occupying the runway, an example of a transmission by the ATC would be:

TWR: "American 123, runway 03L, continue approach, surface wind 220 degrees 15 knots" ...The aircraft will now continue until he is cleared to land, but he MAY NOT LAND until clearance is given by the ATC.

OR if the runway is clear and the acft is number one for the approach...

TWR: "American 123, runway 03L, cleared to land, surface wind 220 degrees 15 knots"... The acft may now land safely.

The pilot knows that he must automatically go around if he reaches decision height and he still hasn't received landing clearance, so if he hasn't gotten a clearance by about 1 or 2 NM the pilot will prompt the ATC in case the ATC has forgotten.

PILOT: "Tower, American 123 short final.", at which point the ATC will clear the acft to land.

Bromster.

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Not cleared to land

Post by Boldpilot » Mon Dec 03, 2007 8:13 pm

Hi Bromster. very interesting but our problem ,of course,is that we cannot prompt the controller in FS9. Maybe in the FS9 update we will be able to. Thanks,BP

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Post by FSPilot06 » Mon Dec 03, 2007 11:14 pm

That's a good theory, Boldpilot. Hopefully soon flight simmers will be able to prompt the controller, make mayday calls, and be able to take more realistic progressive taxi instructions (the pink line kills me).
Flying is not dangerous. If you don't trust something that has to be supported by air, stay out of a car unless it has solid tires. And believe me, those kind of tires don't ride good at all.

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Post by skipperdan » Tue Dec 04, 2007 12:55 am

Isn't there some fancy ATC software that allows you to "speak" actual ATC commands? Doesn't this software have several Bells and Whistles that allow you to do a lot of fancy stuff? 8) 8)
I AM NOT A PILOT. I JUST LOVE AVIATION.

CAPTAIN--CIVIL AIR PATROL
...Emergency Services Training Officer
...Instructor at the Florida Wing Conference 2012.
...Mission Observer (front right seat)
...Air Operations Branch Director
...Flew several times in a Cessna 182 with G1000 (maintaining the MFD).
...Attended two day class conducted by the Air Force Rescue Coordination Center
...Completed training for Flight Line Marshall, Flight Release Officer, and Mission Radio Operator.

You should visit your local Civil Air Patrol Squadron and complete an application for membership.
.
Please watch this video that my son made of a Discovery Flight from Albert Whitted Airport (my home base). http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-EMUg1jiCss
.
Please check out scenery that I helped develop for Albert Whitted Airport http://www.surclaro.com/download.php?query=KSPG&op=search&cid=
.
Check out this article in Air and Space Magazine concerning Albert Whitted Airport:
http://www.airspacemag.com/history-of-flight/The-Airport-That-Wouldnt-Die.html

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Not cleared to land

Post by Boldpilot » Tue Dec 04, 2007 1:01 am

Hi Skipper, Haven't heard of it if there is.BP

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Post by mel wilson » Tue Dec 04, 2007 1:07 am

The nearest you will get is this: http://www.editvoicepack.com/

We have used it in the Maddie Project.

Mel.
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Not Cleared To Land

Post by Boldpilot » Thu Apr 03, 2008 3:27 am

Hi Guy's .Over the past months when ATC has directed me to a certain runway for landing and I have requested another runway which ATC have approved and redirected me . After landing I get the call from ATC " You are not cleared to land ", "and please clear the runway". When turning off the runway these calls cease. I think the ATC call should come much earlier so that we have time to respond and "go around ".

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Post by flyrcoyle » Thu Apr 03, 2008 4:06 pm

Although I haven't flown in FS9 for awhile (busy with life & working on FSX), when I used to fly with a VA, I often was routed to Burbank, where this problem almost always happened. Eventually, I came to ignore it. Btw, after flying in there many times, I am positive that I had the right runway and both clearances. Also, there was another aiport, in New Mexico I think, that I would be given clearance to land and could absolutely count on an AI 727 dropping down in front of me just before touch down. I got real good at go-around procedures at that place. It sometimes happened on the go-around also.
Robert S. Coyle

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