PERFECT LANDING

Real world flight lessons to be applied on flight simulations. Read and share tutorials, tips, tricks, procedures, experiences, etc...

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magichat744
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PERFECT LANDING

Post by magichat744 » Wed Jan 28, 2004 12:04 am

CAN SOMEONE PLEASE GIVE ME THE STEPS TO MAKE A GOOD LANDING!

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Post by Insured Disaster » Thu Jan 29, 2004 5:26 am

Step one: Take out an Insurance policy to cover the airport, the plane, you, your passengers, the town and anything else in your path. Well just kidding.

THE REAL STEP ONE: Buy a joystick. It is possible to land a plane using the keyboard, but a perfect landing will require a joystick. I would suggest Microsoft products, but everyone has there favorite. My current joystick is a Sidewinder Precision 2. I would recommend that you buy a stick with rudder and throttle functions as well, such as mine has. Try out several at a store to get one that feels right but expect to pay at least $30. Sadly, you do get what you pay for.

Step two. Get good at controlling the plane. Start with the 172. I know it seems plain and boring to many people, but it will help you get good. Fly it without the auto pilot. Practice smooth climbs, descents, and turns. Get a feel for how slow the plane will fly with the flaps both up and down. In real life, a student learns to fly the plane in the air, and after a few hours, the instructor will let the student land the plane.

Step three: After you get good at flight, you should get good at approaches. To do a good approach, you should set up a rate of descent that requires you to hold just a bit of power. If you see that you are high, you can cut the power and increase your rate of descent. If you are low, increase the power and slow the rate of descent. Do not climb, just slow descent. This will bring you up on the proper descent path. Under no circumstances should you dive on the runway. If you are that high, go around and set up a better approach. With practice, you will be able to see just how high you are at any given time in relation to the runway.

Step 4: At the end of an approach, you will find yourself over the runway, at around 15-20 feet. You want to decrease power and slowly bring the nose up by pulling back on the stick. Your speed will lessen, your rate of descent will slow and you will hopefully stall just inches over the runway.

Problems you might ecounter. 1 Pulling back too fast on the stick when landing will cause you to climb. Your speed will also drop. You can attemp to slavage the landing by adding power and lowering the nose to keep the speed up and stop the ascent. Of course, check to see that the runway is long enough. You can also go around. However if you do nothing, You will stall many feet above the runway and crash.

2. Not pulling up fast enough. You will hit on the nose gear or not slow your rate of descent. It will be a hard landing. You will also bounce. In a worst case, you can than start to climb again. If this is the case. Start a go around.

3. Poor dirctional control. Make sure to land on both mains. If you land on just one wheel, you might head off the runway. The reason is that you are not level. THe only time you land on just one main is if you are battling a crosswind. DO NOT battle crosswinds while training.

GO AROUND. First of all, go arounds are safest when started early. Thus if you see that your approach is about to get you a DUI, you should go around, rather than try to land and risk crashing. The important steps in a go around are.
1. Increase power and stop the rate of descent. Bring the nose up.
2. Reduce the flaps. Do it slowly, one notch at a time. You should be careful not to sink. If you are at full flaps, immediately go to 20. Then start a shallow climb, when the speed comes up, go to flaps 10. Then retract them all the way.
3. DO NOT STALL. If you are low and then try to go around, but do not watch your speed, you will likely stall. Be careful

STALLS
A stall is when the plane flys so slowly that it begins to fall from the sky. This is a simplified definition but will work for a student's purposes. Stalls are very dangerous when they happen at low altitudes. You should practice stalling with the flaps up and down around 3,000 feet to get a feel for them. To enter a stall reduce power to idle, then start pulling back the stick to hold altitude. Don't climb just hold altitude. When the plane starts to sink and you can not pull back any more, you have stalled To recover, you need altitude. But apply full power, push the stick forward, then start to pull back. If you have any flaps down, slowly bring them up. The trick is to pull back fast enough to not lose anymore altitude, but not so fast that you stall again.


HELPFUL HINTS

Hit control + W to hide the panel for a better view of the runway.
Hit Shift + Enter to lower the view angle. This will affect your viewpoint, so hiding the panel is the better bet.

Finally, practice, practice, practice.

Have fun

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good landings

Post by rat_n_a_cage » Thu Jan 29, 2004 6:42 am

Most important part of making a good landing is a stabilized approach! That means (if flying a jet) you need to be lined up with the runway and at the proper approach speed with gear and flaps in the final landing configuration by the time you're about 3-4 miles out (for heavy metal like the 747, you should be maybe about 7 miles out). For larger jets you need to have a few degrees up pitch trimmed in as well. Once in this configuration you should regulate your decent rate using VERY GENTLE adjustments of the throttle (+/- 5%) and control airspeed using VERY GENTLE pitch adjustments (+/- 3*). In real life this condition is sometimes referred to as the reverse control region (throttle:altitude, pitch:airspeed). Maintain alignment using the rudder - again, gently! If you need to input larger changes, you're not in a stabilized approach.

And, as always, practice, practice, practice!

HINT: use the autopilot to maintain runway alignment (ILS/Localizer) and concentrate on pitch and thrust until you get comfortable with those controls. Kill the autopilot though before you cross the threshhold because it gets very sensitive and may result in overcorrection - and that's how they fly the heavy metal in real life anyway :wink:

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Post by Insured Disaster » Thu Jan 29, 2004 2:56 pm

Good point about the distance. I neglected to include that very important information. :oops:

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thanks

Post by magichat744 » Sun Feb 01, 2004 12:30 am

thank you huys great information!

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Post by flyrcoyle » Tue Mar 02, 2004 11:28 am

One other thing that helped me a lot as I got used to sim flying as opposed to RW flying is to use the VASI lights available at the larger airports (actually in most of the FS airports). These are the Red and/or White lights on either side of the end of the runway. If you're on the proper glideslope, you will have both red and white on both sides of the runway. All red means you're too low, all white too high. Red on one side means you are too far that direction (some runways only have VASI lights on one side so at these locations you have no lateral indication, but you should be able to tell if you're lined up with the runway anyway). Hope this helps a little bit in addition to the excellent explanations already posted.
Robert S. Coyle

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vasi

Post by rat_n_a_cage » Wed Mar 03, 2004 5:30 am

Red over White: you're all right
Red over Red: you're dead
White over White: you're outa sight! 8)

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Post by flyrcoyle » Wed Mar 03, 2004 11:07 am

You know, I can't say how many years I've been around aviation and I've never heard that one before. I really like it though, an excellent neumonic.
Robert S. Coyle

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Re: vasi

Post by SpectroPro » Sat May 08, 2004 3:13 am

rat_n_a_cage wrote:Red over White: you're all right
Red over Red: you're dead
White over White: you're outa sight! 8)
I was going to post this as well, as this is what my instructor taught me many years ago, and I passed on to my students. However, we change this:

white over white - fly all night.

both work well.

Now, when I was in flight school, we had a chance to do a live training session with the Kings. This was incredible and their teaching led to almost all 95+ scores on our writtens. However, one question brought up was what if you have white over red? They noted that this is not possible. We argued this point. They did retract and actually added the fact to their videos. You can have White over Red. Course, you do NOT want that. Think about it. 8)

- Greg

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Post by Insured Disaster » Sat May 08, 2004 6:40 am

Ok, maybe you are coming from under the gideslope, ie, the runway is on a cliff or something and you are really low?

2) Maybe someone on the ground is messing with you?
Signature changed to avoid offending anyone.
LOL

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Post by SpectroPro » Sat May 08, 2004 6:46 am

Ok...don't feel bad, no one else can get it either.. and for those I told, do NOT give it a way,.....yet.

Scenerio: You are flying in a dense fog. Your flying IFR and you are about 2 miles from the runway. Your instruments start failing one by one. You are trying to keep the plane level, but have no reference of course. Then you see it.. The VASI system. The lights are horizontal so you know all is well. You look and notice that the lights are white over red.

WHY?

hehe, this is a good one. EXPERTS didn't get it...so don't ever feel bad if you can't either. This is the type of warped stuff that my bulbous brain comes up with while pondering the creation of the universe.

- Greg

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Post by flyrcoyle » Sat May 08, 2004 12:12 pm

Only two possible explanations come to mind. One, the moisture in the air is causing a really weird refraction and/or reflection or two, (and this seems the most plausible) you're inverted.
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Post by ricktobin » Sat May 08, 2004 12:37 pm

I think I'll go with flyrcoyle's second possibility, you're upside down.

SpectroPro

Post by SpectroPro » Sat May 08, 2004 3:01 pm

Heh, you got it. You are inverted. I found it quite funny that the Kings had never thought of this possibility. But then had to agree, it WAS possible. Thus, it has been included in their training videos now. 8)

Good thinking.

I actually like the moisture idea...that could in fact happen if you have a whole lot of things happening all at the same time. Another very high improbability, but I can think of a situation where it COULD be possible.. however, you would probably only see it flash that way for an instant or for a very few seconds.

- Greg

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Post by ricktobin » Sat May 08, 2004 3:13 pm

Hearing that scenario reminded me of a story my dad told me when he was stationed on the U.S.S. Saratoga in Vietnam.

Seems they had more than a few pilots that, while attempting to eject for whatever reason, were actually inverted and ejected into the ocean. Needless to say, the outcome wasn't good.

SpectroPro

Post by SpectroPro » Sat May 08, 2004 4:32 pm

Rick, I have NO problems believing that at all. You would think you would know that you were inverted, but trust me, or any other pilot that has done some major instrument flying, especially in nasty weather where you get knocked around a lot, you don't always know.

Especially if you shave your head like me, or are follically challenged, also like me, you may not have your hair as a reference point.

We had the opportunity in flight school to do quite a bit of acrobatic flying. If you ever ever get a chance, and especially if you are a pilot, you MUST do this... It is the GREATEST learning that you could ever imagine. Because you can get into all the funky "never will happen" attitudes and learn what to do to fix the situation without being smeared into the landscape. You get to learn how things 'feel' and practice understanding them. It had to be the most FUN added cost to my education and also in my oppinion, the absolute BEST added cost to my education.

Anyone here that's done it can testify..

- Greg

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Post by flyrcoyle » Sun May 09, 2004 7:15 am

re:reflections; I've seen some pretty weird things happen when it comes to optics, especially reflections. They are usually, as Spectropro said, just a flash, but certain atmospheric conditions can cause a longer term effect. One refraction illusion in the flash catagory is just as the sun is setting over the ocean, you will sometimes see a very bright green flash that will have you swearing that the sun just blew up. I saw an explanation to this years ago, but I wasn't educated enough at the time to understand the phenomen and associated physics.
re:aerobatics. The best money you can spend if you ever have any inclination to go pro as a pilot. It will help make you a more precise pilot as well as force you to start believing your instruments. It is a real blast too.
Robert S. Coyle

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Post by Flowdrip » Thu Mar 31, 2005 4:26 am

So ejecting from a cockpit while inverted is a bad thing????? :lol:
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Post by SpectroPro » Thu Mar 31, 2005 4:35 am

Flowdrip wrote:So ejecting from a cockpit while inverted is a bad thing????? :lol:
unless you are doing one of your 33,000 foot halo jumps. ;)

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Post by Flowdrip » Thu Mar 31, 2005 4:48 am

Have you ever jumped from a plane? I have 141 jumps from 14,000 ft, and 1 from 31,000 and 1 from 33,000. Soon as I get 3 of my vertabrae fused together, I'm looking to return to Somerville, Tennessee for another HALO jump. I'm always looking for someone to go with me, (for some reason my wife thinks it is insane to jump out of a perfectly good airplane) Be warned. It is EXPENSIVE!! The ground school training and 1 jump is $3500.00 + airfare, hotels..... This is the biggest reason I only have 2 under my belt. There is NOTHING like it in this world!
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Post by SpectroPro » Thu Mar 31, 2005 7:00 am

That's a bit expensive for a jump. Can't justify that, however, I bet that is a blast. I will have my 50th jump this summer, and hopefully get my 75th as well. My older sister has close to 200. She got me hooked. Maybe if I win the lottery someday, I'll hook up a few of those jumps... but until then, with a wife and 5 kids, that aint happenin. 8)

Feel free to shoot a video and share it with us!!!!

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Post by Flowdrip » Fri Apr 01, 2005 5:22 am

5 kids!!!! Don't you ever watch TV. :D I'm really impressed with your sister. 200 jumps is a lot. I thought I was doing pretty good at 143, but your sister puts me to shame. I agree that it is a little on the expensive side, (It usually runs me about $3,900-$4,000 for the jump, airfare,hotels, food...) but since you know what it is like leaving a plane @ 14,000 ft., the extra 17,000+ ft. you add onto a HALO jump is as different as night and day. First off when you exit the plane, it's around -20 degrees below zero. Plus there isn't a whole lot of oxygen up there, (you breathe pure oxygen before and during the flight up to jump level, and the BEST part is you get to freefall for 2 minutes! Some guy in 1960 jumped from 102,800 ft. and lived to tell about it. Now there is a woman named Cheryl Stearns that is going to jump from the top of the stratosphere (only 130,000 ft.!) Those 2 certainly make me look like a girlie-man :oops: You and your sister should really, really try a HALO before you go to the Great Airport in the sky. You can check it out at www.incredibleadventures.com
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Post by ricktobin » Fri Apr 01, 2005 12:54 pm

For those prices I guess I should thank Uncle Sam for allowing me to do it for free all these years.

Free jumps, free airfare courtesy of the U.S. Air Force (C130, C141, C17), free lodging (a sleeping bag and poncho in the woods), and free food (MRE's).

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Post by Flowdrip » Sat Apr 02, 2005 12:08 am

I have a little problem. I'm more than sure that Uncle Sam doesn't let 45 year old guys join the paratroopers! I didn't even make my first jump until I was 39. Any chance you could put in a good word for me and see if I could be accepted in that elite corp? Free jumps..........Gotta love it!
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Post by fastbikkel » Fri Jun 24, 2005 9:11 am

very good discussion here.
I want to share something as well.

I used to fly all kinds of different planes, that did nothing good to my skills.
Now i try to stick with one aircraft and practise this one over and over again.

Put yourself in a flying position 40 miles or so from an airport, save the game and start practising those landings.

It can be a handful though. Lots of things to consider, airspeed, altitude, heading.
At first all i could do is keep the heading good, but i didnt pay good attention to my speed or altitude.

In time you will learn to do all these things simultaneously.

But as mentioned by other people, steady does it. No hardbanking, gentle on the throttle.

Wow what a nice hobby we have nowadays huh? :)

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Post by planesmart2 » Fri Jun 24, 2005 1:52 pm

Planning for the perfect landing happens about 20 miles out.
1. Make sure you are at a correct altitude.

2. Your airspeed in correct.

3. Make sure you put your flaps down on the correct timing.

4. Most important is getting all the checklist work done ahead of time so all you think about is landing the airplane and looking out for traffic.

5. Make small corrections. Unless needed.

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Post by andyaude » Fri Jun 24, 2005 6:02 pm

ricktobin wrote:I think I'll go with flyrcoyle's second possibility, you're upside down.
I'm gonna fire up FS right now and try that. I might have to slew it to get it upside down or at least get it to a high altitude and go crazy with the trim...

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Post by harkonnen » Wed Oct 12, 2005 9:31 pm

I find it so interesting how some planes are so much different to land than others. I got used to landing bigger airliners as well as Cessnas and smaller aircraft quite nicely (You know, so your passengers barely feel the bump) and then I tried to do everything right all at once when landing that BIG Antonov 225-A. Flaps are good, airspeed's good, gear's down, glide slope's reasonable....but she's funny to line up, you think it's just right, then you're overcorrecting, compensating, over compensating, forgot about that throttle.....oh Man that's a lot of metal, fuel and cargo to drop onto that little neighbourhood just before the runway! :oops:

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Post by Dog fight 1943 » Fri Nov 11, 2005 7:32 am

I've never thought about that, being inverted in a fog and trying to land. I guess flying in a plane really does something to your sences, no wonder they have all those instruments.

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landings !!!!

Post by JetRanger0007 » Fri Nov 11, 2005 10:22 am

WOW,,After reading all this,,, I think I'll go practice some of these techniques,,,,,,,, on,,,,, my MOTORCYCLE,,,,,,, Evil Knivel did it,,, so can I !!!!!

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